In A.D. 251 St. Cyprian of Carthage wrote, "He can no longer have God as his Father who does not have the church as his mother." You can't have Jesus without the church we might say. They are a package deal.
Yet it is not uncommon to hear people (especially people under the age of 30) say things like, 'I follow Jesus, but I don't think I necessarily need the church,' or 'I experience God more in nature than I do in the church.' Many such individuals have had negative experiences in the church that have left them wonder if they can have a Christianity with just the good parts. No intentional intimate community, no input from a pastor, no cheese-ball worship leaders, no committees, no buildings, no tradition, no creeds, no authority...just give me Jesus.
So here the question: Do we get to have Jesus without the church?
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Priscilla and I found a church in FL and in AL in which we could be obediant but we never really felt at home in either. But you have to go. The idea that it is just you and Jesus seems to be a bit egotistical and I must admit that I kind of like the idea. My walk would be much easier if I never had to deal with the rest of you people out there. :) Hard to think of a person having a forgiving, open heart if they are a church of one.
ReplyDeleteWith all the variety in America you'd have to be pretty fussy not to be able to find a church that suits you (ouch, that just sounds wrong).
ReplyDeleteI was at Saddleback last weekend, and Rick Warren actually mentioned this. He reminded us that the church is the bride of Christ. He said to imagine going up to a man and saying "Hey, I like you, but I don't like your wife." Chances are, he would be pretty offended as is Christ when we don't like His bride.
ReplyDeleteI liked the way he put and and felt convicted because I can have a pretty critical spirit about certain things in certain churches!
To expound on Ray’s thoughts above…
ReplyDeleteThe culture in southern Florida was very different from what either of us had encountered before, from both a people and church standpoint. We found people very standoff-ish in general and found the same type of attitude in the churches we visited. Maybe it was because southern Florida is home to many snow birds. Maybe it was the economy in which these folks found themselves in where their property taxes were tripling from one year to another and their home values were plummeting. Maybe it was us. We did find a church here in Alabama and then we moved about an hour away from it. We visited churches where we’re at currently and found more interim pastors than you would believe possible in a small southern town. I’m not really sold on joining a church with an interim pastor. That is me being fussy.
With Ray in Indiana while I am still in Alabama, it would have been nice to have a church family here to call on. Fortunately, I have a small circle of friends at work that have taken me on as their pet project. :o)They do keep me busy.
Taking the back roads back to the original question, yes I believe you can have Jesus without the church, but I do not believe it to be obedient to make it your long term plan. We are meant to have community with others who are like-minded for fellowship, growth and accountability.
Ray,
ReplyDelete"a bit egotisitical, and I must admit I kind of like the idea." Ha! Me too. I guess that adjective is an apt description for most of us though.
Bern,
ReplyDeleteYou'd think. I even visited a church where the purpose seemed to be having a collection of individuals who got together in one place, but who maintained a me and Jesus spirituality. Weird.
Leslie,
ReplyDeleteI like that illustration. It seems that if we don't like the church we don't like the thing that is truly in the heart of Jesus, which I think means we don't like the real Jesus, but some cheap substitute.
Priscilla,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your thoughts.
That is an interesting perspective. I think it is good to distinguish between a temporary situation and a long term spiritual plan. Sometimes very abnormal things are just necessary.